Curse

LONGA · Oct 01, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

This thread remind me of an Anime called "Jigoku Shoujo".Story about a girl who offer you a straw doll with red string tied on it.When you untied the red string.The person you have grudge with will go to hell.But you have to pay the price by going to hell when you died.

On Eplisode 24 call "chain"

People in the Entire city dissapper because they all sent to Hell for whatever reason they did.Because every body know about this straw doll.They just thought "its you or me".

Pretty sure that so many fear of it but still temped to use it.

Gigashadow · Oct 01, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I don't know about the other random arenas, but Fort Aspenwood is fun to play again, no leechers.

Having players police each other is fine, that is what happens in other games, except that it is done through personal reputation. Since personal reputation or guild reputation does not exist in GW, this has to do instead.

Antheus · Oct 01, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

People in the Entire city dissapper because they all sent to Hell for whatever reason they did.Because every body know about this straw doll.They just thought "its you or me".

Let he, who is without a sin, cast the first stone.

Quote:

Since personal reputation or guild reputation does not exist in GW, this has to do instead.

Interdependency does not exist. Nobody in GW depends on anything or anyone.

Make enemies in other MMOs, and you'll have really hard time playing. You'll find people won't trade you, PUGs will not accept you, allies will not support you in combat.

Karma basically.

TheRaven · Oct 01, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I think the reporting system is great and it's a step in the right direction, but in order to judge it we'll first have to wait and see what happens to the reports when they are received by Arena Net. I'm sure we'll have little kids reporting everyone in town just because they hate the color their armor is dyed, but I also believe those little kids will be ignored or penalized by A-net staff.

The report of offensive names is a tricky area because it's so subjective. There's probably a document floating around A-net headquarters somewhere that outlines what should be banned and what shouldn't, but it will still come down to a judgment call on the part of the staff. Sexual innunedo is a tough call and possibly will depend on who gets the report. Here are 2 names I saw yesterday in AB (Slightly changed to hide the owners identity)
"Hot Necro Babe"
"Waxed and Lickable Titties"

Are those names bannable? I don't know. I didn't report either one. Both are sexual in nature and both were probably created by 15 year old boys. I don't think there is anything offensive about the necro babe. We see similiar names each day ingame and barely give them a 2nd thought. However, in my opinion the other one crossed the line. My opinion doesn't matter though, it's A-net's opinion that does and hopefully their employees with the bansticks have been given guidelines to follow.

Ask yourself this question. If you are an adult and you walked into the room and saw your 13 year old teen having a conversation with either character, what would you do? If you are still a teen and you were having the conversation and your mom walked up to the computer, would you hide screen?

Change of subject.....Leeching. I have 1 concern. If you actually pause to watch the tutorial video outlining the map and cap points before the AB matches, can you be reported for leeching. Does your character zone into the map while you are still watching? I did several AB matches this weekend and I saw many folks reporting players if they did not immediately move off the spawn point and onto the warp circles. It would be best if you do not load into the match until after you finish the video.

Kashrlyyk · Oct 02, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...4&postcount=68

This is what Andrew Patrick asked in the incgamers.forum thread about the feedback. He was trying to defend the system with that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

... Do people breaching our rules of conduct honestly need protection from being held accountable to that? ...

What would be your answer?

SotiCoto · Oct 02, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...4&postcount=68

What would be your answer?

And whose decision is it what breaches those guidelines and what doesn't?
The mob's?

There are always cases where the rules / guidelines initially given just aren't specific enough on certain scenarios.... and if A-Net don't actually make some sort of formal decision on that matter, then the mob basically take over.... and when that happens, it can only mean trouble. The mob don't know the difference between the game and what evolution had their heads programmed with from birth. The whole situation becomes Lord of the Flies.

Frankly.... I'd sooner defend the current system where the mob have less power than the newer situation where it is served up to them nice and easy.... Overall, A-Net are trying to save themselves work... and fair enough on that part... but in doing so they are losing control of their own creation.

And to Antheus:
Once again.... I'm not trolling.
I'm just very VERY opinionated.... and lack the capacity for standard empathy or tact.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew [email protected]

I don't imagine there are very many people out there who would risk having their account shut-down just to be funny, or be a jerk, and if there are, they are the ones who are going to be burned by it, not the people they are reporting.

You haven't been to any major city or PvP outpost have you Andrew?

Antheus · Oct 02, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Sometimes different sorts of people end up in the same environment.... and though they might not like it, they need to put aside their differences and tolerate each other.

- We have put up with quitters, leavers, leechers
- We keep on playing with imperfect teams
- We tolerate such foul language that people could be imprisoned for it
- We tolerate griefers in every pvp arena
- We tolerate non-elite, noobs, idiots, unranked or simply unskilled and inexperienced
- We tolerate intolerance

Now it's your turn

Inde · Oct 02, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

please keep holocaust references off this thread

Sli Ander · Oct 02, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I read through as much of this as I could, so I don't believe this has been mentioned. One thought I had was that if you're banned from PvP, you can't run to play another PvP match, even GvG. There's no place to hide from a ban until it goes away.

But what about PvE? Now I know banning an account completely from PvE isn't reasonable, it would certainly make you lose customers. But what if for certain offences (griefing, leeching) a scaled down version of dishonor points could be applied? What if dishonor points affected PvE'ers in the form of non-removable death penalty (that decayed at a different rate)? It would have to be confined to certain offences (being hit with points for having an obnoxious name wouldn't be a fit 'punishment')

I know that PvE reportable offences are all handled by a much slower system of reports (someone, somewhere has to decide whether a name was offensive enough to warrant changing), most likely due to the higher number of people in any given city, but should someone griefing or leeching in a PvP arena be able to do the same to a PvE team while he waits for his ban to end?

I haven't gotten a chance to test the system, but this was one issue I wanted to discuss. I am simply waiting on the abuse issue, waiting for the trigger happies to get bored and for real results to show. I'm optimistic.

But that's just my two cents

/edit: ah, bryant beat me to it! Making the debuff obvious to your teammates (perhaps when you join) would be necessary, otherwise it would just punish the people that didn't know or would make griefing easier. If it's obvious you've been debuffed, however, it might ostracize them a bit, i.e. a social timeout because only henchies will take you. Sorry I missed thinking about that part, I'm a little tired...

Bryant Again · Oct 02, 2007, 03:48 PM // 15:48

In terms of a way to help PvE, it'd be cool if you can see this dishonerable debuff when you click on them, or if it could be something that appears above their heads.

...or does something like that already exist? I haven't had the time to check, PC is down.

Punches · Oct 02, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

I read through as much of this as I could, so I don't believe this has been mentioned. One thought I had was that if you're banned from PvP, you can't run to play another PvP match, even GvG. There's no place to hide from a ban until it goes away.

But what about PvE? Now I know banning an account completely from PvE isn't reasonable, it would certainly make you lose customers. But what if for certain offences (griefing, leeching) a scaled down version of dishonor points could be applied? What if dishonor points affected PvE'ers in the form of non-removable death penalty (that decayed at a different rate)? It would have to be confined to certain offences (being hit with points for having an obnoxious name wouldn't be a fit 'punishment')

I know that PvE reportable offences are all handled by a much slower system of reports (someone, somewhere has to decide whether a name was offensive enough to warrant changing), most likely due to the higher number of people in any given city, but should someone griefing or leeching in a PvP arena be able to do the same to a PvE team while he waits for his ban to end?

I haven't gotten a chance to test the system, but this was one issue I wanted to discuss. I am simply waiting on the abuse issue, waiting for the trigger happies to get bored and for real results to show. I'm optimistic.

But that's just my two cents

Yeah, the "Dishonor" system was instituted for PvP reports, but the report system is still usable in PvE/Towns&Outposts. My understanding of it is that while reports for Leeching/Griefing are handled by an automated system, reports for foul language,botting,scamming,etc. have to go through the same channels as if you took a screenshot and sent it to support.

Now, you can still report people for leeching/griefing in a PvE mission if I am not mistaken, but there is no solid disciplinary action there as it only applies dishonor points and an eventual removal of PvP priveleges, pointless to a PvE gamer.

I move that the dishonor system apply to all instanced maps. The amount of time you are banned from playing is relatively short and it would be further deterrant from people doing these things in PvE areas did so at the risk of not being able to leave a town/outpost for 10 minutes or more.

quickmonty · Oct 02, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Government Flu

And I occasionally let loose a curse word here and there because it's part of my vocabulary, and in a non-formal social arena, I don't tend to watch my tongue. With the report command, my sense of freedom in speaking feels very censored.

A 'slip of the tongue' is one thing, but when you type out a word and hit <enter> it is a conscious decision and not a 'slip'.

Diddy bow · Oct 02, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

One change id like to see is if the same person got multiple /repots (from diffrent people ofc) in diffrent games for leeching that could also result in the hex, that means that even if the whole team deosnt report you can still make an impact.

Kashrlyyk · Oct 03, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazz

..../report followed by a player's name will open a new report dialog panel. From this panel, you can report a chosen player for leeching, botting, spamming, using abusive language, or having an inappropriate character name. Reports will then be relayed and reviewed by the Guild Wars Support team.

a) Then explain to me, please, how it is possible to ban an innocent person? If the very first review of the logs is done by a human person, how can it be that a second review of the very same logs, somehow results in a different conclusion?

Possibilities:
1) the first review is done by an idiot.
2) the first review is done by an overworked and underpayed GM
3) the first review is done by someone that hates players, and wants them to suffer
4) the first review is not done by a human person, but by a automatic script, that bans the player
5) the logs are inprecise and full of flaws, but then they should never permanently ban anyone
6) "your explaination"????

They make mistakes when it comes to the most harsh punishment, that is the punishment, where they should check and doublecheck before uttering it. But they don´t. Why do you think they are going to review all the /report incidents????

b) Do you believe that they would mention on their website, that they ban people permanently with a script and with no human person involved?

eazz · Oct 03, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

a) Then explain to me, please, how it is possible to ban an innocent person? If the very first review of the logs is done by a human person, how can it be that a second review of the very same logs, somehow results in a different conclusion?..

Possibilities:
1) the first review is done by an idiot.
2) the first review is done by an overworked and underpayed GM
3) the first review is done by someone that hates players, and wants them to suffer
4) the first review is not done by a human person, but by a automatic script, that bans the player
5) the logs are inprecise and full of flaws, but then they should never permanently ban anyone
6) "your explaination"????

They make mistakes when it comes to the most harsh punishment, that is the punishment, where they should check and doublecheck before uttering it. But they don´t. Why do you think they are going to review all the /report incidents????

b) Do you believe that they would mention on their website, that they ban people permanently with a script and with no human person involved?

You answered A) they make mistakes OR two reviews by different people OR additional reports with additional evidence OR subjective call with an appeal was made.. What proof do you have of this scenario. Everyone's afraid of innocent people being banned.. i havent heard of a single person actually having it happen yet. Pheraps the answer is.. it isnt possible to ban an innocent person by reporting them to gms who review before banning. .. wouldnt that be shocking!

Why do i think they are going to review all the reports.. because an un-reviewed report does nothing.. its a report system.. its for reporting.. TO someone.. that's what they said they built. Yes. They didn't build a /ban system. They built something to help their GM's help players.. if you think about it.. it's something GMs would logically want.... an 'alert' system for the community to point out trouble makers to investigate.. rather than whatever searching they were doing before.

Answer to b) Yes, if they built an automated system, I think they'd say it was automated.. they told us about loot scaling, they told us about automated tournies, they tell us about auto things. .. If you're just going to assume the first info they told us about the /report system was a lie.. there's no point discussing because you're arguing guesses.

freekedoutfish · Oct 03, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I said this in another post about this issue...

...its better to be doing something then nothing! it mayb not be perfect, but atleast their trying.

Not to mention, if you've done nothing wrong then what are you worried about.

SotiCoto · Oct 03, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I said this in another post about this issue...

...its better to be doing something then nothing! it mayb not be perfect, but atleast their trying.

Not to mention, if you've done nothing wrong then what are you worried about.

Can characters permanently murder or steal from other characters?
No... they cannot.
Can they do anything to permanently alter another person's game experience against their will?
NO! They cannot.

So where is the need for any such policing system at all?

kmburton · Oct 03, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Can characters permanently murder or steal from other characters?
No... they cannot.
Can they do anything to permanently alter another person's game experience against their will?
NO! They cannot.

So where is the need for any such policing system at all?

If you play Fort Aspenwood, AB, or RA you already know the answer to that. It is something that we have asked for for over a year. Leeching and leaving does affect other players. This is the system they came up with and as far as I have experienced it is working. I have had better experiences in both areas since Friday than I have had since Factions came out.

As far as the rest I wouldn't know. I don't turn on all chat or go around looking at character names unless I am trying to put a team together.

SotiCoto · Oct 03, 2007, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmburton

If you play Fort Aspenwood, AB, or RA you already know the answer to that. It is something that we have asked for for over a year. Leeching and leaving does affect other players. This is the system they came up with and as far as I have experienced it is working. I have had better experiences in both areas since Friday than I have had since Factions came out.

I've been in many teams WITH leechers... and against leechers... Same with leavers.
I've played 5v5 in Aspenwood before because both sides had leechers / leavers.

And I didn't find it lowered my ability to enjoy the match at all. It just added an element of uncertainty to it. Sometimes a leecher is better to have than an idiot with an absolutely dysfunctional build running around.

As such... while you might prefer to be without them, I honestly can't see what the problem is myself. I mean if it turns out to be 8v1 and you're the 1.... I can understand how you would feel a bit peeved.... but that just happens sometimes. I've been there too. The other team were all jeering at me to give up, but I refused to... even when everyone else had left.
Likewise I've been on the flipside. I've been on a full team against just ONE remaining Luxon.... and usually commend them for hanging around against the odds.

I've never leeched myself, and "leaving" has only occurred twice due to disconnect and an inability to reconnect.
"Griefing" I'm not so sure about, but I'm fairly sure I've done that though.... My girlfriend and I end up in fits of laughter when I play my "Really a Kurzick" rit on the Luxon side and run around consuming allied spirits and minions, or maintaining Life Attunement at 0 Prot on warriors (not to mention whispering the Kurzick side to let them know whom I serve)... People complained about that, so I told them that if they have issues with my playing the game creatively, that they're more than welcome to do the same right back at me. I'm nothing if not fair in that respect.
Apparently doing that will get me banned now.... o_0;

*Shrugs*

Guess I'll find some other way to gain the necessary Luxon faction without abandoning my underlying Kurzick support. I am a roleplayer though, and maintaining my alliegance is more important to me than whether people think I'm playing "fairly" or not.